Showing posts with label hard modes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label hard modes. Show all posts

Friday, October 28, 2011

that time of the year/expac/tier again...

It took several weeks of AH-camping... my mog set is mostly complete.

I need a better weapon, but otherwise I'm pretty happy.

In other news... Meh. I'm glad we got an apology but cynical-enlynn thinks it sounds forced.

My guild is stuck on Rhyolith 25H. A bad kind of stuck, in which I feel like we have hit a wall and haven't figured out how to knock it down. Well, I have a few ideas of who to knock down but that isn't very nice of me. :)

In some ways I wish 4.3 would hurry itself up. And yet I don't want it to because I am really not ready to "rush" through that tier of content just to have 5.0 thrust on us before we're ready.

(I may or may not be a little bitter about the mid-tier nerfs for Firelands).

But there are good things. For instance, our healing team.

They aren't good. They're great. We're doing lean, mean teams for farm content. 4-healing Baleroc is fun as all-get out (we have 3 shadow priests, too, which is pretty neat) and our team is flexible enough to make that happen. I love that. We've gotten into a solid enough groove in the tier that we don't talk too much about who's going to do what, we just do it.

We've been recruiting healers for a while. The last two or three apps have been paladins who can only heal. I hate to be a paladin-snob (okay, okay, I love being a paladin-snob but I realize how much of a pain it is for all you non-paladins), but to be gentle, it's hard to impress me. And we have enough healer-only healers that any newcomers to the group have got to have a DPS set.

I just find it kinda funny. This time last year we couldn't find a second paladin healer to save our lives. Now we have two regular ones plus they make up the majority of the applications? I can't win.

It is that time of the tier, again.

It is that time of the year, again, too. NaNoWriMo. My master plan to get Luxinterior to do some guest posts may or may not get you some humor during the month of November. Just don't life grip him, it never ends well.

Monday, July 25, 2011

I looked at Magmaw funny

A foray into 10 HM...

Now that we're doing t12, my guild put together a 10-raid for HM Blackwing Descent. Perhaps regular modes have been nerfed all to hell (and they have, they have) but HMs are still--wait for it--hard.

The group was really cobbled together with the folks who happened to be on on Saturday. So it was my absolute favorite healing composition (two holy paladins + anything else) (sarcasm alert!), but we made it work. Only kinda, though, since we didn't get any bosses down. But I had expected as much, since we hadn't touched a single Hardmode yet this expansion and none of us had really researched the fights yet.

But even so, it gave me a chance to see my mastery gear working in a 10-group. At first, I went in my hybrid gear (17% mastery, 1000+ haste, more crit) and used my Tower of Radiance spec, but after a couple of wipes I switched to my "main" set and to my non-ToR spec.

A couple of reasons why: In a raid with the haste buff, the difference between 970 haste and 1200 or so haste is... not noticeable. Perhaps you get an extra Holy Radiance tick (a handy chart would be neat, but I digress), but the cast time on direct heals is the same either way. And in 10-raids, Holy Radiance isn't quite the I-Win button it is in 25's.

My "off spec" gear is lower i-level. I ran into this problem before, in Icecrown Citadel, trying to keep up a FoL set (haste to soft cap, stack spellpower) with random pieces of gear. Except, I never had a full offset so some of my pieces were still gemmed for intellect. So it wasn't a true specialist set, it was entirely cobbled together, and the real kicker: lower average i-level. I lost so much to put that gear on. I ended up using it Saurfang while we were progressing and that's about it. Once it felt on farm, I didn't bother.

I feel much the same way with my "haste and spirit" set now. I lose 4-pc t11 bonus, several thousand intellect, and 7% bubblage for... a couple hundred haste, an extra % or so crit, and... wait for it... all those i-level drops actually give me less spirit. Because this all off-set gear, old gear, lower i-level. All my new stuff is part of my mastery set.

A part of this is that it isn't a true offset. I still have too many pieces that are reforged for mastery, so instead of being a second specialist set, it still favors mastery while not favoring it enough.

And I do believe that I would be saying the opposite, if I had cobbled together a mastery offset, if I had half-assed it and coming up with 15% bubblage instead of 24%, I would not be the mastery cheerleader that I am right now.

A part of me dies every time I cheerlead for mastery. But the point is: your best gear will probably give you the best results. And why this is news for me, well, I haven't had my coffee yet.

Is there a point to all this? I really thought I had one but now that I'm here, I don't. I was able to "compete" with the other healers in my mastery gear, though we had to do healing assignments to work around me and I do not like being in that position. We had the other healadin beacon the tank, focus the raid, while I beaconed the adds tank and focused on the main tank. Sometimes I was a bit overwhelmed by the damage, but for the most part I wasn't. I never thought "whew, glad I got all this mastery" or anything.

I'm going to have to do some research for next weekend. I'm really not motivated to reforge my gear for one run on the weekend just to switch it back for the week, but we'll see what happens.

Thursday, July 14, 2011

et tu, enlynn?: mastery build

I imagine you've already seen some hullabulloo about the changes in 4.2 to mastery. Buffs, yes. Changes, yes. But enough changes to warrant a dramatic playstyle and gearing change for Firelands?

Maybe.

I read the Holy Paladin: Mastery thread over on the Blizzard forums and thought to myself that going Zaroua's route was probably a great idea for 25 HM raiders. But, I'm not a HM raider, not yet. We're shooting to get normal modes down for Firelands but it didn't happen in T11 and quite frankly we had enough on our metaphorical guild plate without them. So I did think, when I read through this, that it didn't apply to me.

Then I saw that Rohan had joined the Mastery Club. Again, HM raider.

And then Adgamorix threw in his vote and I realized something: tank deaths on Shannox were wiping us. Back-to-back Arcing Slashes and melee attacks in .12 seconds were dealing 120k and 95k damage faster than my UI could display it. And if this build is supposedly very good for crazy ass spikey tank damage like this, then why wasn't I at least willing to give it a try?

I spent some justice points and got 4 pc set bonus (not so much for the bonus, but the two pieces with mastery were the best deal for the JP I had). I reforged and regemmed (all my Reckless became Artful), and picked up the pieces of gear with Mastery from the Firelands Rep Guys (vote: pathetic or not pathetic that I don't even know the faction I'm grinding for right now?).

I cobbled together a 23% bubble with hardly any effort. Previously, I had 77 mastery (so basically a 12% bubble).

And so after almost 50 attempts at Shannox over the last few weeks, we went in last night and killed him the second time. Our RL takes full credit for the first wipe, but the second pull was beautiful, pitch-perfect, and the loot flowed.

My meters were borked. According to Skada, my bubbles were... 44k. Which is actually the bubble I had on the MT when we pulled (which is crazy). I was disheartened, but I had several healers whisper me saying they felt the difference, that whatever I had done was a good thing.

Fortunately, WoL has the story. But I'm going to drag this out and first talk about my healing before, since I think that's important. Here's a picture of last night, a very-close Shannox attempt. My assignment is the same for both: Luxinterior, Shannox tank. He, I believe, made some minor to his gear over the weekend but I'm fairly certain the only change between last night and tonight was me.

Before, my haste-stacking paladin self:



Lots of Word of Glory, and lots of Divine Light spammed on my Beacon target (Lux) to generate Holy Power. Holy Radiance popped just about every Magma Burst, and I made a point to be inside the raid when it happened to maximize my AoE healing.

And now, with Mastery:


I made radical changes to my healing style. Beacon of Light jumped to my highest healing done because I set it on the other tank and basically forgot it for the fight. But check out my bubbling- a solid fifth of my healing done.

But did you catch the overheal on my direct heals? Oi.

A thought on Holy Radiance: Because my goal for this fight was to spam Holy Light on the tank the entire fight whether or not he needed it, I spent less time positioning myself to help with AoE. The numbers here are deceiving, because not only did I get less in-range ticks with this change and those ticks healed for less, but I was off by myself or sometimes just in the melee. I used Holy Radiance 10 times for both samples, but the data can't be compared because I behaved differently.

I might have lost a tick with the haste I lost, but I didn't lose any intellect so in theory each tick would have healed the same if I had played the same.

What didn't change

Judging on cooldown, plea and trinkets early and often, hitting AoE heal button every XX seconds in response to AoE pulses. Tank healing like it's going out of style.

I healed for a bit less overall with a mastery build, however, my ranking within my raid didn't change. The healing done page looked fairly similar for both in terms of what other healers were doing.

What did change

Everything else! Who I healed and what spells I used. I went from favoring Divine Light to being afraid of it. I lost several hundred spirit to make this change, pigeon-holing me into favoring Holy Light and using DL and Flash of Light for oh-shit moments (even that oh-shit moment that I used an instant-cast FoL while running ended up being 100% overheal because others beat me to it). Beacon became a fire-and-forget buff on the other side of the raid instead of an active tool to help me raid heal and generate Holy Power while keeping my assignment up.

(BTW, raise your hand if you forgot Infusion procs insta-cast FoLs again! Cause I sure did till last night).

Beacon probably deserves its own post since I find I'm using mine differently than other paladins in the raid. But before I derail entirely, I had to mention the Beacon change because it did change how I healed the tank. When Beacon isn't on my assignment, I am restricted. With a mastery build, I am further restricted to healing my target. Raid healing with this setup doesn't heal my target, and those raid bubbles aren't likely to get absorbed in a fight like Shannox. Also, time spent not healing the tank is time not spent building up bubbles. So this build really, really pigeon-holes a paladin into one thing and one thing only: spamming Holy Light on the tank whether or not he needs it.

Pardon me. I could have sworn I just heard a skeleton screaming "Bone Storm!" from across a chamber of ice.

TLDR:

This build is effective for crazy tank damage fights. I can not deny it. For 25 raiders and both 10 and 25 HM raiders, I can see why stacking mastery would be a benefit to the raid for specific fights.

However, (and of course there's a however), a paladin really ought to take a long look at her playing habits and raiding roster. There are a lot of situations where a mastery build would be a great idea, but I also believe there will be a lot of situations where a haste-spirit build would be stronger.

After Shannox, we went and did a few attempts on our next boss target, Lord Ryolith, and holy cow had we not gotten Shannox down I would have felt useless for Ryolith. Heavy raid damage fights are not not friendly to the mastery build. (However, after comparing myself to the other holy paladin in my raid, I could have tried a lot harder so the verdict is most certainly not out yet for how best a mastery build paladin can use her abilities in this kind of fight. I'll post more once I figure it out.)

Should you go mastery? If and only if you play with a regular group of folks so you can be a designated main tank healer and work with the rest of your raid to help you get the most effectiveness out of this playstyle. I'm not so sure that 10 regular modes require a stacking setup, either, my experiences with 10s isn't near as great as 25s, but I just don't see the tank damage as crazy enough to warrant it. 10's, to me, seem to encourage staying general (ie, flexible) instead of going specialized, and with 10 mans that loss of spirit to focus on mastery is going to hurt.

But in 25s (even regular), volunteering to be that paladin might not be such a bad idea, especially if your group is solid enough that it's just assumed you're going to be one of the main tank healers. Does your 25-raid need 2? I have no idea. I'm not going to recommend that the other healadins in my raid make the switch.

Why?

If my snark earlier was not obvious enough, spamming a heal on a person whether they need it or not... is not FUN. I have squirmy feelings about casting with no regards to overheal. I half-wonder if we're going to see nerfs since the mastery build encourages spam-casting that goes against design intent.

Did I mention it's not fun? Sure, it felt real good to get the boss down but being a Holy-Light-Metronome (too bad paladins can't be Gnomes, har har!) will get real old, real fast. I mean, I'll do it, I like getting bosses down just like any other gal, but I lost a lot of flexibility to gain tank healing stability. Especially since I got feedback from the other healers saying it made their jobs less stressful. For me, sticking with a mastery build will be taking one for the team.

And a HM raider will have different experiences, since they will have a lot less overheal.

TLDR, for real this time

If you're struggling with keeping up tank damage that, by the logs, looks impossible to heal, going with a mastery build might be the ticket to downing those bosses.

But I would say, if you don't heal with a steady raid group, if your raid roster is constantly changing and your focus within the raid is different every night, then a more balanced approach might be better. And if you value your flexibility within your raid group, then you probably will not enjoy this specialist build.

Thursday, April 21, 2011

proto drake goodness



Proto-drakes are my favorite mount. And I have to say, the Ironbound is elegant.

Thursday, October 7, 2010

random mistakes and patchiness

Last week was a pretty bad week for raiding. Anything that could have gone wrong, did. DC's? Check. Computer problems? Awesome! Silly mistakes made by players who otherwise know whats up? Please, sir, can I have some more?

Yeah. We were struggling on Halion from silly things, we finally got him down to like 2% this was going to be it, we had this, and...

Divine Intervention.

On. The. Tank.

There are a ton of things I have done to wipe the raid in the past, and until last week, I could proudly say that DI was not one of them. Sure, I've had Beacon drop. I've cast FoL when I totally had the mana to HL. I've hit DP right at tank-takes-a-beating-phase. I've eaten goos, and I've even killed myself falling from the dream (or was it a nightmare?). But last week I DI'd the tank and wiped the raid. I guess there's a first time for everything.

(Ironic, too, that soon™ enough this won't even be a spell in my book. I almost made it!)

On a more positive note, we got Lady D on Heroic down yesterday, and I was able to complete Saurfang H too (the guild had it, I just hadn't gotten it with them). So we have three left! Although if 4.0 drops as soon as next week, that does throw a wrench into our progression plans. I'm trying not to be scared about the new paladin healing. I replaced my cloth chest with a plate one (my first piece of heroic gear on my main!), so I have two more pieces of mail then I'm wearing all plate.

Speaking of preparing for 4.0, Tarinae has some recommendations for in game currency if there's any BOA gear you've been thinking about picking up (do it soon!). Anything else you've been doing to prepare for the patch?

Friday, September 24, 2010

10s, 25s, or banana?

Over at WorldofMatticus.com, there's a poll going for who's planning to do 10s or 25s come Cata. The verdict is in: lots of players want 10 man raids, and many players are calling this the death of 25s. In game, there's almost a venom that comes out with this discussion, as if there's a horde of players who have secretly hated 25 man raids and can't wait for them to writhe in a horribly-fiery-painful death.

However, there are a few advantages of 25s that I haven't seen discussed too much. I'm glad that there are a lot of players excited about the change to lockouts (it means that Blizzard made the right choice, and that lots of players are doing 25s when they don't want to). But I don't believe that 25 man raids will die, especially not by fire. There are advantages that larger guilds have in terms of logistics.

1. Maintaining extras in a 25 man roster is easier than 10 man. All raiding guilds want to have at least a couple of extra damage dealers and healers hanging out in the wings. So the guild over-stocks itself, knowing that every raid night, a couple of folks won't make it, and a couple will be benched. It's expected that in a healthy 25 man guild, there's a wait list (perhaps not over this past summer or fall, but, you know). In this case, you have anywhere from 7 to 14% (3 or 4 of 29) of your raid group sitting out each week. Ideally. Odds are, in a 25 setting, it would be less because the larger the group, the more likely there's a meeting/school event/birthday that keeps a raider away.

In a 10 man group, ideally, you still want to overstock but the line between too few and too many is less clear. Suddenly 12-25% (3 of 13) of your raid force is going to be sitting on a given night, if everyone showed (which grows more likely with a smaller group). If your main tank doesn't show, it could spell a cancellation. In a 25 man raiding guild, there's more likely to be someone who can switch specs for the night or be brought in.

2. 10 mans rely a lot more on 100% raider attendance. How many 25 man raids have you done in the past few months, shy a damage dealer or two? Or, even with the most borked raid comp you could think of? I can think of plenty times we've gone and done the easy bosses with 20. Hell, we've progressed with 24.

Try that in 10 man? There's achievements for that, but I doubt it's a healthy thing to try to do new bosses that way, and not consistently. Especially if healer mana is as constrained as predicted, doing a fight shy one raider on 10 man is a risky endeavor that will punish the healers the most. Culling a damage dealer prolongs the fight, dropping a healer could push remaining healers too much.

3. 10 man raids will be tuned for the same gear level and be harder. For the first two tiers of content in Wrath, I never did 25s, and I found 10s to be pretty hard at gear level. I think the strict 10 man progression raiders would agree, too, if you don't outgear the instance, 10s aren't exactly faceroll now. I never did ICC 10 without severely overgearing it. Period. I came in with 245 gear, when it was tuned for 232 gear. That's a big difference in spell power, luxury stats like haste and crit, and blue bar. That's extra gem slots, too! I'll admit, I have no idea what 10 man progression in Icecrown should have felt like, because I was already geared with 25 man ToC gear.

If 10s are being tuned without the lower gear requirement, a lot of players might find 10s harder than anticipated, especially since each player is 10% of the equation, as opposed 4% in a 25.

4. 10 man and 25 man often have different loot systems. I'm a huge fan of EPGP. I think it's pretty darn fair (I'm biased, as a player with 100% attendance who only takes what she needs). Since I do 25s and that's where my "best" upgrades come from, I could care less when I lose a /roll in a 10.

I suppose this statement relies soundly on a few assumptions. Most 10 man runs I've ever seen do a /roll, often limited what you can main spec per wing/per boss. I haven't heard of many 10 man guilds that have a formal loot system, and I have a hard time picturing how something like EPGP or DKP would work. I don't have any experience with loot council, but any system that favors attendance over a /roll is going to put the players is going to put the casual folks recruited to be available when you're short at a severe disadvantage.

ESPECIALLY if there's less loot per boss on 10. That could get nasty. In a 25 man, a casual member just helping out for the night still might walk away with some upgrades despite an attendance system (more drops per boss, the sooner stuff gets sharded/goes to offspec). In a 10 man, it seems less likely, especially if the 10 man is designed to "gear players up" more slowly than 25 mans, then more of your players are still waiting on specific upgrades. The regular raiders would be hurt by a /roll, but the casual would have no incentive to join if they have to pass to the regular raider.

Less loot in 10s also exacerbates the recruitment issue. Less gear going to offspecs could limit your raid's flexibility. It's been easy in Wrath to maintain a viable offspec (how many druids and paladins do you know that have three sets of gear?), because with the dailies, badges from two lockouts AND two/three weeklies, and drops from two lockouts, the gear is out there. In Cata, we'll only get one lockout, and we'll be capped on how many PVE points we can get in a week.

If 10 mans are designed to take more time to gear up, that further delays the drops going to off spec, limiting how many folks are going to be able to switch as needed. Players who value their flexibility may have incentive to do 25 man raids. I imagine that even 10 man raiders will be able to keep offsets, but they might have to mix and match some lower tier gear to do it.

While it's true that healers and casters maybe be able to use a lot of their main gear for their offspec, that doesn't help tanks, paladins, or enhancement shamans. Their offsets will be built from scratch.

5. 25 man raids, in Cata, can shift down to smaller raid sizes on short nights, while 10 man groups can not shift up. A low attendance night won't cancel the larger raid, assuming there's enough tanks and healers, as they can at least do a fight or two at the 10 man size.

6. Problem players and cliques can claim more authority in a 10 man raiding group. Lots of players like 10 mans for the intimacy (I do, too). I have accepted that in a 25 man environment, there will be at least a couple of absolute dicks. If I choose to progress in only 10 mans, I wouldn't put up with even one. I'd want to genuinely like and respect everyone in my 10 man group, while it's expected that in a larger group that just won't happen. Personalities meshing in smaller groups is more pivotal for group success than in larger raids.

Smaller groups can potentially be polarized by issues and personalities. Just like the difference in feel between a small business and a corporation, the comfort and intimacy can become a liability if not carefully handled. In that respect, 25 man guilds can promote emotional distance and professionality, which some players look for in their raiding environment.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to suggest that 25 man raids are less likely to get emotional or have drama explosions, because that's not true at all! What I am trying to say is that it rocks the world of a 10 man guild when 10% or 20% of your raiding force ragequits. That's the potential to call the raid for the night, which is quite a bit of power in the hands of one individual. In a 25 man raiding guild, the individual holds less power and therefore can't emotionally blackmail the group. Granted, these aren't the players you want in your raid anyways, but calling a raid early for a night or not raiding at all is dangerous for guild morale. I've always felt there was a higher potential for fallout in a 10 man group over the 25. It's more intimidating to risk pissing off 24 people than 9.

6. 10 man healers will (likely) be less specialized. This is quite a bit of speculation on my part, but I predict that Blizzard's motto for healers of using the whole toolkit will come out much more in 10 man raids than in 25's. In larger groups, there is more room for specialization, while in small groups there is a need for versatility. Healers who want to specialize could very well be happier in 25 man raiding group, especially healers who expect to be doing the same job all the time. That isn't to say that tank healers will never cast raid heals or vice versa, but I predict that I want to define myself as a tank healer, I'll need to stick to 25 man raids to do it. In a larger group, it's easier to specialize and expect to fulfill that role. A lot of healers will love the versatility of healing in 10 man raids (I like playing my priest and druid more in 10s than 25s) but some will still prefer to specialize.

7. Managing a 10 man really isn't that much "easier" than managing a 25, it's a busy job no matter the group size. I've done both, and obviously YMMV, but personally I've found being an officer in 25 to be simpler even if the volume of tells is always worse. With a larger team of officers, my role was clearly delineated and there was almost always another officer online to confirm policy or ask for support. Going back to the small business analogy, a 10 man officer is going to juggle more hats. The 25 man officer is going to take care of the assignments given to them, and deflect other matters to the correct officer. Established roles make for less stress and less stepping on toes.

If I were offered a leadership position again, I'd rather take it in a 25 man guild than a 10. The argument that no one will want to manage 25s falls flat for me. It's a lot of work and emotional investment to manage a guild, no matter its size.

TL;DR: If Blizzard stays true to their design mission of play the raid lockout you WANT to play, I believe 10 man raids will be a lot more prevalent, but I don't think it's the death knell for 25 man groups. There will still be incentives to do the larger raiding groups, and I think there will be enough players who genuinely want to do 25 mans to do them.

I have yet to see what raiding will be like in Cataclysm, but I have a good feeling I'll be playing with the folks I want to raid with, whatever lockout that ends up being. I voted "banana".

LICH KING UPDATE: I KILLED 25 LK LAST NIGHT, and completed 7 hardmodes this week! (My guild is up to 8 hardmodes, but my internet sucks so I had to step out for Saurfang, which really bummed me out.) BUTBUT shiny new mace and I just broke 43,000 mana!

Sunday, September 19, 2010

setting new sails

'Tis International Talk Like a Pirate Day! Have ye joined in the fun?

For me blatherins today, I've got a bit of secret, 'twill change me an' Mayhem's lives. Fer a long time, I been a bit unhappy in the ship we sailed in, how we took care of our crew, an' how we charted the waters. It be hard, it be!, to serve as first mate when yer captain and you want different shores and treasures! 'Twere it not for the love I had for the crew, I'd not've stayed so long.

So t'day we got a hard day before us, breakin' the news to the crew and handin' back me hat. We got a new ship waitin' to set sail, an' the monsters they seek be fearsome indeed! We're headin' into some harrd modes, ahoy!

I'm quiverin' in me boots, that me sword will be sharp 'nough and me hand steady. Will I be paladin enough for these new sailors, or will they make me walk the plank?

Saturday, September 18, 2010

is WotLK over yet?

Not for me :)

Since we've been wrapping up the last handful of achievements for Glory of the Hero, Mayhem joked with me: we'll be finishing Wrath the same way we started, doing violet hold every day...

Up to 73 H-VH runs now, but I'm okay with that. He needed A Void Dance, then I won't ever be going back. Well, till my next 70+ character. It'll happen. Maybe this time it won't be a healer!

Yeah, right. My shaman is 36 and specced resto. It's a lot of fun.

Whether I realized it or not, the Lich King might have been my last big goal of this expansion. Considering I've always enjoyed the social dynamic of 10's more than 25's, getting my KS title, then helping my guild get it a week later, was pretty satisfying.

I want to clear 100k gold, but, I'm so close that earning another 5k over eight weeks isn't anything. There's no reason for this goal, especially since if I had just not gone so crazy with BOE gear every tier I'd easily have 300,000 gold. (Wow, I should really be embarrassed about that). This is a good reason NOT to power-level enchanting, tailoring, leatherworking, and alchemy. In Cataclysm, I swear I'm gonna slow down...

Glory of the Hero. I have three our four left, I just need to do them. Mayhem got his drake last night, hurray! Seriously, I just need to buckle down and do them.

Some hard mode ICC10 fights. Last night we went and got down LDW, Fester, and we almost got Rot and dangit if we just had time for one more attempt we would have had it. (Oh, lootship, too, but, duh.) It was a lot of fun, and this might be the raid I'm most looking forward to in the coming weeks. I

So, how about you? Is it game over yet, or do you still have things to knock off your list before the expansion?

Also, since bloggers are also writers, I found this hilarious:

Monday, April 26, 2010

Firefighter


Firefighter was hard. And so fun. I cried tears of joy when we got him!